One need not have had much hope or faith in Rufo to be disappointed and disgusted with his latest debacle - I have pointed out many times the man was cheering Dave Rubin and his homo adopting children years ago. There is something sinister though in this latest that your writing brings up - he exists as a form of authority within the broader anti-woke movement and through this and his funds he effectively is attempting to absolve these women of their pornographic and leftist past - without requiring anything of them. No deprivation of wandering the wilderness. Instead they can waltz right in blessed by an admittedly young elder and be paid by the hidden hands. Wicked.
At least in the United States it seems like Catholic conservatives have won by default. The Catholic left proved to be non-viable and few want to be a priest to promote this stuff. It does exist in bureaucracies like Catholic Charities and various similar organizations in Europe. Hopefully the younger generation of priests will be able to gain control over these organizations.
I wouldn’t be triumphalist, as the stirrings are fairly small. I personally haven’t been too inspired by the trad movement. I once attended a youth group at a trad-adjacent church with Latin Novus Ordo and left because it felt like every Mass or activity ended with complaining about the modern world. (I agree but would like to hear some positivity sometimes.)
I can’t judge the older generation too much as I suppose it made sense to them at the time and it would be sad to see the failure of your life’s work. But it is time for a younger generation to take over and a new direction is sorely required.
> I once attended a youth group at a trad-adjacent church with Latin Novus Ordo and left because it felt like every Mass or activity ended with complaining about the modern world.
Negative identity is a big problem. You can't base your identity on what you, aren't but on what you are and do.
The collapse of Catholicism's social-political power comes from the ethnic cleansing of the Irish and Italian populations from northeast cities. The dates line up almost perfectly: JFK's head explodes in '63, CRA in '64 and a mass exodus from the tight knit inner-city parishes ensues, never to be revitalized in their new safe and spacious suburbs or in the new promised lands on west coast. There is a theory this was top-down deliberate attempt to dilute the Catholic vote and political machine from toppling FDR's legacy machine. But I can't speak to how true that may be.
The more important point to consider is something this essay does touch on: that weak priests made hard times for the Church, and its people. But strength here should not be measured in theological purity as the essay posits. Rather that the strength of a priest is how well he can deliver a parish that have each other's backs. If there's one place the Church can punch above its weight it's in the blue collar area schools it builds and maintains among a sea of social collapse.
In the opening of "The Departed" Jack Nicholson (playing Whitey Bulger) narrates the collapse of Irish Catholic political power in the 60s as "Years ago we had the Church, that was only a way of saying 'we had each other'." Before we can see the philosophy of the seminaries return to prominence, the church must answer who "we" are, and how we'll go about defending it.
> There is a theory this was top-down deliberate attempt to dilute the Catholic vote and political machine from toppling FDR's legacy machine. But I can't speak to how true that may be.
That's essentially the essay I wrote on John Carter's substack.
I liked the first part and agree that we're at a point where the youthful ardent believers are very close to rejecting church hierarchy, I personally fantasize about an "outlaw" church that has a mass service outside, without a "real" priest - do you really need to go to seminary for 8 years to do that?
But, to be honest, it felt to me like you were getting really excited about merging the Christian faith and state power , which IMHO, the one negates the other... good read and I agree with you kinda but feel we're not on the same path brother. slightly parallel but different nonetheless. not to say i'm on the "right" one
While no defender of things as they are, or have become, I’m old enough to remember the old church - it was not such a great institution, although it contained many saints. Change and self reflection is always necessary but nostalgia is not metanoia.
But traditionalism sucks. It is a Calvinistic Pharisee ideology of fertility virtue signaling and reactionary fake masculinity and slavish femininity. Tin Gordon and Kennedy Hall suck.
"fertility virtue signaling" is real, I have seen it at work in conservative parishes separating the sheep from the goats.
Women who have ten children, or who are plausibly scheduling ten children, are extremely concerned to be accorded status and power within the Church for this sacrifice of their time for the good of the Church.
Women who have few children are anxious to place the fault for their lack outside themselves, and make sure everyone knows the fault lies outside themselves. Or they find it easier to socialize, and organize, exclusively with other women in the parish with few children.
There has been a "great sorting" these past fifty years, into sheep and goats according to method of contraception: NFP or pills, but nobody talks about it. Priests and others talk about it even less than they talk about abortion.
I'm not sure how this subterranean difference gets resolved, but it creates a power struggle within parishes, and parish schools, and homeschooling groups, with hard feelings on both sides.
One need not have had much hope or faith in Rufo to be disappointed and disgusted with his latest debacle - I have pointed out many times the man was cheering Dave Rubin and his homo adopting children years ago. There is something sinister though in this latest that your writing brings up - he exists as a form of authority within the broader anti-woke movement and through this and his funds he effectively is attempting to absolve these women of their pornographic and leftist past - without requiring anything of them. No deprivation of wandering the wilderness. Instead they can waltz right in blessed by an admittedly young elder and be paid by the hidden hands. Wicked.
There are thousands of qualified people with a clean background who could do as good or better than these women.
Arguing our side lacks talent betrays how little he thinks of us.
At least in the United States it seems like Catholic conservatives have won by default. The Catholic left proved to be non-viable and few want to be a priest to promote this stuff. It does exist in bureaucracies like Catholic Charities and various similar organizations in Europe. Hopefully the younger generation of priests will be able to gain control over these organizations.
I wouldn’t be triumphalist, as the stirrings are fairly small. I personally haven’t been too inspired by the trad movement. I once attended a youth group at a trad-adjacent church with Latin Novus Ordo and left because it felt like every Mass or activity ended with complaining about the modern world. (I agree but would like to hear some positivity sometimes.)
I can’t judge the older generation too much as I suppose it made sense to them at the time and it would be sad to see the failure of your life’s work. But it is time for a younger generation to take over and a new direction is sorely required.
I suppose
> I once attended a youth group at a trad-adjacent church with Latin Novus Ordo and left because it felt like every Mass or activity ended with complaining about the modern world.
Negative identity is a big problem. You can't base your identity on what you, aren't but on what you are and do.
"If you want to continue to win and maintain what we’ve gained for future generations, now is the time for sackcloth and ashes."
They also make great camo for other things one might have on their person. Rosaries are good too.
I'm curious to see what happens when violence breaks out, as well as when this pontificate ends. Things will get... spicy.
The collapse of Catholicism's social-political power comes from the ethnic cleansing of the Irish and Italian populations from northeast cities. The dates line up almost perfectly: JFK's head explodes in '63, CRA in '64 and a mass exodus from the tight knit inner-city parishes ensues, never to be revitalized in their new safe and spacious suburbs or in the new promised lands on west coast. There is a theory this was top-down deliberate attempt to dilute the Catholic vote and political machine from toppling FDR's legacy machine. But I can't speak to how true that may be.
The more important point to consider is something this essay does touch on: that weak priests made hard times for the Church, and its people. But strength here should not be measured in theological purity as the essay posits. Rather that the strength of a priest is how well he can deliver a parish that have each other's backs. If there's one place the Church can punch above its weight it's in the blue collar area schools it builds and maintains among a sea of social collapse.
In the opening of "The Departed" Jack Nicholson (playing Whitey Bulger) narrates the collapse of Irish Catholic political power in the 60s as "Years ago we had the Church, that was only a way of saying 'we had each other'." Before we can see the philosophy of the seminaries return to prominence, the church must answer who "we" are, and how we'll go about defending it.
> There is a theory this was top-down deliberate attempt to dilute the Catholic vote and political machine from toppling FDR's legacy machine. But I can't speak to how true that may be.
That's essentially the essay I wrote on John Carter's substack.
https://barsoom.substack.com/p/white-ethnic-cleansing-as-social
I liked the first part and agree that we're at a point where the youthful ardent believers are very close to rejecting church hierarchy, I personally fantasize about an "outlaw" church that has a mass service outside, without a "real" priest - do you really need to go to seminary for 8 years to do that?
But, to be honest, it felt to me like you were getting really excited about merging the Christian faith and state power , which IMHO, the one negates the other... good read and I agree with you kinda but feel we're not on the same path brother. slightly parallel but different nonetheless. not to say i'm on the "right" one
While no defender of things as they are, or have become, I’m old enough to remember the old church - it was not such a great institution, although it contained many saints. Change and self reflection is always necessary but nostalgia is not metanoia.
But traditionalism sucks. It is a Calvinistic Pharisee ideology of fertility virtue signaling and reactionary fake masculinity and slavish femininity. Tin Gordon and Kennedy Hall suck.
I don't know your experiences, but the trad world that exists online and the trad communities I live in are vastly different.
"fertility virtue signaling" is real, I have seen it at work in conservative parishes separating the sheep from the goats.
Women who have ten children, or who are plausibly scheduling ten children, are extremely concerned to be accorded status and power within the Church for this sacrifice of their time for the good of the Church.
Women who have few children are anxious to place the fault for their lack outside themselves, and make sure everyone knows the fault lies outside themselves. Or they find it easier to socialize, and organize, exclusively with other women in the parish with few children.
There has been a "great sorting" these past fifty years, into sheep and goats according to method of contraception: NFP or pills, but nobody talks about it. Priests and others talk about it even less than they talk about abortion.
I'm not sure how this subterranean difference gets resolved, but it creates a power struggle within parishes, and parish schools, and homeschooling groups, with hard feelings on both sides.